Archive for the 'Installation Issues' Category

The Problems With Granite Floors

Posted in Answers to Granite Questions..., Installation Issues, Other Topics on June 21st, 2007

We just discovered your website and cannot thank you enough for providing such an invaluable service to confused homeowners such as us :)

We are in the process of updating our kitchen. Out of an array of granite that we saw we have finally settled on “Silver Sparkle” for our countertops. Also we are giving serious consideration to using granite as the flooring material in the kitchen/foyer/hallway etc. The questions we have are:

1. What has your experience been in using granite for flooring? How is the the stain resistance, durability, and care? I am a little worried as it will be used in a high traffic area. We thought about using porcelain/ceramic in our kitchen but were advised against it as it may not hold the weight of our heavy duty Wolf appliances. Is there any truth in this?

2. We are leaning towards either “Kashmir White” or “Ivory Raw Silk” granite tiles for the floor. Which one of these do you think will work well with the Silver Sparkle on the counters? Our cabinets will be mahogany with a dark stain (resembles the autumn blush stain of the cherry Kraftmaid cabinets).

3. Would you recommend Silver Sparkle on the backsplash as well? It certainly has a lot of movement which is beautiful. Do you think we should stick with a 3 inch backsplash or take it all the way up? We would greatly appreciate your advice.

Hello Athar,

Silver Sparkle is beautiful and a very durable granite for countertops. I can not think of anything to watch out for that is not mentioned in my ‘Homeowners Checklist’ on the blog. Be sure to review that when you select your slabs because the color varies a lot with this granite. Focus on how the countertops will layout on the slabs at the seams. A full splash would look best as look as you have decent natural light in the kitchen. Hopefully you are using stainless appliances and sink.

The floor is another story. I never recommend granite floor in homes. It is too shinny, too slipper and too commercial looking. Did you know that a wet granite floor is more slippery than an ice rink? That is a fact and I have tested it. The static coefficient of friction is actually higher for ice, than a wet polished granite floor. So, watch out!

Secondly, it is extremely difficult on the eye to look at shiny floors unless you are going somewhere, like to the reception counter. It feels cold and hard because it is. Granite is always about 10 degree cooler that the ambient temperate of the room. Touch it, it will always feel cool, which is nice for countertops, but not so much for floors.

Kashmir White has low compressive strength and I suspect it would crack before porcelain tile. I also can not suggest any other granite color for the floor with the Silver Sparkle and I strongly suggest going with porcelain tile or a natural wood. Let me know if you get stuck on the color for the floor and I will follow up on this reply with you. Perhaps a light mottled cranberry porcelain tile would match with the veins in the countertops. If you pick slabs without the red veins, I would consider a light gray floor tile.

Best wishes!

Bad Installation of Bianco Antico

Posted in Answers to Granite Questions..., Installation Issues on June 21st, 2007

Tom,

My husband and I are renovating the kitchen of our 19 year old beach home. As we have plans to keep our second home for many years to come, we went fairly high end in the kitchen, particularly with the granite. It is Bianco Antico, which I am told is more commonly known as White Diamond. The granite is stunning. However, when fabricated, the granite counter area by and around the sink - about 100″ long and standard 25 1/2″ counter width, plus there is in an “L” section where the counter curves toward the range, but is part of the 100″ length - was cut into 4 pieces - a large one to the left of the sink where the “L” is, a large one to the right of the sink and two small strips in front and in back of the sink itself. We are extremely disappointed to have the 4 seams in the sink area.

The fabricator made no real attempt to match up the abutting pieces and claims that the stone was fabricated that way because it kept breaking up on them when they were trying to cut out th e hole for the undermount double sink. The stone does have quite a bit of quartz in it - and is “meshed” on the bottom - which is why they are saying it kept breaking apart. The sink is fairly standard size - 31 5/16″ long by 20 3/4″ wide (the larger bowl; smaller one is 15 3/4″ wide). The templater had discussed one large piece for the entire sink area including the “L” and we were not remotely prepared to be looking at 4 seams around our sink. The installers simply showed up with the 4 sink pieces at installation. We have discussed this issue with other granite companies near our primary home, where we recently installed granite in our kitchen as well, and with other granite fabricators in the area of our beach home too. Not one of these companies has indicated they would have treated this particularly stone in that fashion. Every one of them has said they would have cut it in one piece.

My husband and I have a few theories - 1. Not enough manpower. Only 2 men in stalled the granite (in constrast we had 6 at our primary residence, and the granite is not nearly as “fragile”). 2. The fabricator did not order enough stone to begin with. or 3. The fabricator has never worked with this type of stone before and butchered it as a result. As we did not directly hire this fabricator (our cabinet company is acting as GC and did a fine job with the new cabinets), we are at a loss on what to do other than continue to argue with all the parties involved. That seems to be going nowhere as we’ve all dug in our heels. The fabricator says they did everything by MIA standards, which we don’t dispute, but it doesn’t make the seams look any better. Any experience with this stone? Should we just keep quiet and live with the seams? Incidentally, I will also mention that there are many nicks around all the counter edges, not just the sink side counters, that were not properly filled in and the granite was not sealed. We were told we would have to seal it ourselves. My husband and I are sick to our stomachs over all of this especially considering how much we paid (only half up so far though). Thanks for your input! - Maria

Hello Maria,

First let me say that I know the stone very well and have installed it myself in Southern California. It is a beautiful but delicate stone with some inherent factures; however, with normal professional fabrication and installation experience it can be installed perfectly. After looking at your photos, I would have installed your kitchen with one seam at the inside corner or perhaps no seams at all if the sink wall is less than 8 feet long. I can not tell how long it is in the photo.

That being said, you have not been treated fairly if there is more than one seam in your entire kitchen, especially if it was not disclosed prior to fabrication. Furthermore, two seams at the sink is an unprofessional method used to save material. It is not first quality for a custom kitchen project. Furthermore, the MIA would not stand behind this procedure in a custom residential kitchen application.

The seam at the sink is a very poor match as you know. Not only is it a poor match, but utilizing the ’spreader’ piece concept mentioned above makes it even easier to find a part of the slab that matches! Shame on this installer, I say.

Here is what you should do. First, ask them why they cut it this way (in so many pieces). They will probably say that it is because of the size of the slabs. Then, ask them where they bought the slabs and call the supplier to confirm the slab size. You will probably find that the fabricator cut the slabs vertically instead of horizontally in order to save material. If they had cut the pieces horizontally then the sink piece would have been long enough to stretch to the corner.

After a little more research, you need to get a local experience fabricator to write a little report for you. Get someone with at least 10 years of experience. Then, present the report to the contractor. You should also check with your state contractor’s board to know your rights. You have more rights than you think and a contractor is not going to fight you when his subcontractor has not complied with industry standards.

Regarding the chips in this granite, they can easily be fixed by a fabricator with the proper experience.

Best wishes!

English Brown Granite and Avoiding Seams

Posted in Answers to Granite Questions..., Granite Choice Advice, Granite Color Help, Installation Issues on May 30th, 2007

Tom:

I am remodeling a kitchen with red oak floors and cherry cabinets with a pecan finish. We have black appliances and will have a black kohler cast iron undermount sink. We’re considering English Brown granite. Do you consider that a good choice and do you have any other recommendations?
The peninsula counter is 11′ long so will require a seam. How do we avoid an abrupt color/grain transition at that seam?

We will also have a 12″ overhang for bar seating. We expect to need undermounted support for the overhang. Any recommendations in that area?

Thanks very much–you have a great site! - Clayton

Hello Clayton

You’ve got a beautiful décor stated there and choosing the right granite will definitely pull it all together. The English Brown Granite with the right brown tones is perfect. I could not make a better suggestion.

Regarding your island, having a seam in the middle of your island is never desirable. Some installers can do an excellent job, but personally, I would rather have a smaller island than a seam in the middle. Everyone will see it and you will be shock at how may will reach to feel if the transition is smooth or not. Now here is the good news. This granite from India can be found in slabs that are very large. I have contracted the installation for an island in this granite that was longer than 11 feet. This is one of the few granites that are sold is slabs that long so just keep looking.

There are two other similar colors from India that you should look at if you can not find a slab long enough for your island. They are called Tan Brown and American Mahogany. I don’t think you will like the American Mahogany even thought it would go very well with your decor. The colors are the same but the mineral matrix is much tighter. Tan Brown Granite is very similar and can often be sold as English Brown. The difference between Tan Brown and English Brown is the amount of black and the redness of the brown orthoclase minerals. Tan Brown is handsome and elegant with a black sink, red oak floors and your pecan washed cabinets. Just bee sure to inspect the slabs closely for open pock marks. Good quality slabs in this color are resin filled at the factory so they should look very smooth looking.

Regarding your overhang, I’ve written a couple good responses to this question in the past which are the best to give you complete information.

See these two posts: Supporting Granite With Corbels and Installing Granite With An Overhang

If the references above do not answer all your questions, please write back to me and I will provide more information.

My best wishes!

Paint Choices for Volga Blue Granite and Cherry Cabinets

Posted in Answers to Granite Questions..., Granite Choice Advice, Granite Color Help, Installation Issues on May 8th, 2007

Hi Tom, i’ve enjoyed reading your website and need your advice. we changed our minds several times over granite colors (from light to dark), but have purchased (not yet installed) Volga Blue granite. We love the opalescent qualities of it. We have natural cherry cabinets, stainless steel stove and sink (not yet refrig), black dishwasher, and teak floors. We are in a quandry over paint choices. we’ve been told to use at least 3 tones or shades. the adjoining family room will also have the teak floor, but currently has paneled walls. can we stay in the brown tones as that’s always been our palette, or shift towards reds? thanks

Hello Carol,

That is a nice combination with the Volga Blue from Ukraine and the natural cherry. Before I comment on the paint color consideration, please be sure that the fabricator has worked with Volga Blue before. This stone needs to be cut so that the granite lays down on the countertops in the same direction as the slab presents itself. In other words, pieces can not butt into each other if cut in different directions or else the shading will vary from piece to pieces and be horrible. Also, Volga Blue needs to be cut with a fresh blade and cut slower than other granite colors because of its particular mineral structure. If not, it will chip when cut and make seams more noticeable.

Regarding color, the stainless pulls it all together. Definitely go away from the brown paint colors, but you will also find reds quite difficult to brighten your day. You won’t see me recommending ‘white paint’ anywhere thus far, except that for this time. You’ve got the cherry floor, the stainless appliances, and gorgeous granite, The Volga Blue presents about four opalescent colors/shades. I really think you need to make the walls go away. I would even suggest an extremely light blue/green/mostly whitish paint that appears like the color of the granite is reflecting onto the wall in sunlight. A lot depends on the amount of natural light falling into the room but if you have average sunlight, consider a very light white shade of paint.

Now then, if you must have red, then you should find an Ox blood red paint and use it as an accent on a wall, with the other walls being bright white. I hope this helps. Let me know what you decide.

Best wishes,
Tom Cordova

Bistro Look With New Venetian Gold Granite

Posted in Answers to Granite Questions..., Granite Choice Advice, Granite Color Help, Installation Issues, Other Topics on April 1st, 2007

Hi Tom. I am in the process of buying a townhome from a builder that I almost passed up due to the granite selection, Venetian Gold. It is a spec home and I don’t have the option of changing it. I took some friends by to look at it and give their thoughts. They liked the stone, but one suggested that the tile flooring and backsplash is not a good match. The current tile is a creamy, yellowish color with a little veining. With that suggestion, I’m growing to like the Venetian Gold, but am not sure what color tile and b/s I should have it replaced with, as well as the paint choice.

My cabinet color is called cherry spice - 42″ meet the ceiling, canned lighting, appliances stainless steel with black trim. The kitchen is open to the living area and breakfast nook, both covered with wood flooring of a med reddish brown color, living area ceiling height is a full two floors. My furniture style is contemporary, but not a cold urban loft look.

I would appreciate your suggestions for tile and paint color to maintain a sort of coffee house/bistro sort of look with this granite color.

Shari

Hello Shari,

Even though you are working around the constraints of stainless appliances with black trim and New Venetian Gold Granite, you can still achieve the coffee house/bistro ambiance. The granite color is quite popular and tames the kitchen enough to allow you to go bolder with the paint. Paint is a funny thing because it can totally sell a home for top dollar if it is the right color, but if the color is wrong, buyers usually look past it and just imagine another color to change to after they own it.

The coffee house, bistro feel would work well with New Venetian Gold and Cherry Spice cabinets. Leave the floor as is. For the backsplash, I suggest Roman tumbled travertine (4″x4″) set on a 45 degree angle with almond grout. Now! Here is the fun part. Consider a blue or sage green paint for one wall as an accent. Paint the other walls to match the floor kitchen floor walls (creamy/yellowish). If the accent wall gets a lot of natural light, forget the blue and go with sage green. Blue is very tricky and it needs to be a purple/blue, as shown in the photo below, to warm the room up. I like this best but if it gets too much natural light it will turn everything in the room blue, including your face! In which case, go with a sage green and even consider matching the carpet in the living area. See the sage green carpet swatch below, also.

The goal is to darken up the area a little to get the coffee house mellowness but you need more color than just the New Venetian Gold offers. Going this route also allows for future buyers to change the whole décor but just changing the paint color. Also, it sounds like your furniture will go well in this setting as well.

My best wishes!
Tom

New Venetian Gold Granite with Blue Cabinets Sage Green Carpet Sample

Bowing In A Long Granite Countertop

Posted in Answers to Granite Questions..., Installation Issues on March 30th, 2007

We just had a 7 feet long 3/4″ granite counter top installed over new bathroom cabinets. The counter top has an undermount sink in the center and backsplash on three sides. I noticed that there is an 1/8″ gap between the underside of the backsplash and the countertop at the center. In other words the countertop is bowed by 1/8″ over the 7 feet. The back splash is perfectly straight. The installer filled the gap with silicone, but the bowing is very obvious. Shouldn’t the countertop be perfectly straight as well ? Is my counter top made properly? I have not made final payment yet.
Thanks

Hello Bob

A seven-foot countertop will bow if not adequately supported underneath. It sounds like the installer should have shimmed up the center to eliminate the bow in the countertop. Best wishes!

Cutting Granite With Kerosene?

Posted in Answers to Granite Questions..., Granite Choice Advice, Installation Issues, Other Topics, Stain Problems on March 28th, 2007

Hello Tom,

I have been most interested in the questions you’ve been receiving regarding problems with green granites. Could you please tell me if Canadian granite, “Adobe” color is a green granite (my monitor does not show me if it is really green and tan) and whether it, and “Tunas Sea Green” from Brazil will have any “staining” problems? Also, I have read somewhere that some companies cut their stone with kerosene instead of water and that the residual kerosene perks to the surface, staining the stone. How can you be sure that your green granite selection has been water cut?

My thanks for your expertise,
Merr

Hello Merry

I do not believe that anyone in the USA uses Kerosene for cutting. It is just too much of a health hazards and very few even know that it reduces the wear on diamond tools. Would the fabrication plant in Canada use it? Yes, perhaps but I don’t think so. Large slabs are cut with what is known as a Gang Saw, along with corundum shot and a large volume of water. Cutting with Kerosene would be more common in very shorter slabs which are cut with a diamond wheel saw.

Anyway, the Adobe granite is very good stone and I recommend you see local samples to understand the true color. Best wishes!

Trimming A Prefabricated Granite Vanity Top

Posted in Answers to Granite Questions..., Installation Issues, Other Topics on March 9th, 2007

Hi Tom-

I am replacing a vanity and vanity top in a space that is surrounded by walls on 3 sides. Because of the walls, I need a 35″ vanity top, and was interested in granite with an undermount sink. Unfortunately, as my size is not standard, a special order will cost me about 3-4 times what the local Home Depot stocks. I was wondering if I purchased the 3/4″ thick, 37″ long granite slab vanity top with sink attached at HD (standard size) can I cut the slab down with a wet saw? The edges will be covered with side splashes, so I am not worried about the edges being perfect, but the tip of the ogee trim on the front will be exposed.

Thank You!
Jessica

Hello Jessica. You can try to cut the vanity top yourself. Since the top will be covered on both ends by splashes, you only have to be careful to make a nice clean cut at the front.

You will need to rent or buy a Small 4″ Grinder from a nearby HomeDepot or Lowes and also a 4″ diamond blade (Called a Tile or Stone Cutting Blade). It should look like steel with very small diamonds embedded in it. The blades cost between $20-$40. There are two types of diamond wheel blades. One that has a continuous rim and the other is segmented. You will know what I mean when you see them. For granite, you usually want to use the segmented rim type because it is more aggressive. The continuous rim is for softer material like marble. However, the continuous rim will make a smoother cut in the granite and is less likely to chip the front edge of your vanity tops. For light color granite, I would use the continuous rim blade.

A diamond blade does not cut like a wood blade. It cut by abrasive force so I really would find someone that has cut masonry or stone before to help you.

An easier plan might be mark the line where you want it cut with tape and then take it to a small granite company nearby and ask them if they will cut it down for cash (maybe $15 or $20, I would assume). This is very simple for them to do and as long as you have it marked. I don’t think that a fabricator will feel that it is too much trouble.

Here is one more thing to consider. Measure the walls at the front and the back. You might want to cut the top out-of-square so that it slides in better.

Reinforcing A Vanity For Granite

Posted in Answers to Granite Questions..., Installation Issues, Other Topics on March 9th, 2007

We just bought a 37″ X 22″ vanity top to be installed onto our old vanity. My concern is can the vanity hold the top without collapsing. Is there anything I can do to the cabinet to make it sturdier. I thought about a running a 34″ two by four across the back wall to give it more strength in the back. Can you suggest other methods?

Thanks,
Tom

Hello Tom. It is very difficult to comment on this without seeing the vanity but let me give you some useful information. When a heavy object is laid flat, the weight to consider is the Gross Distributed Load (GDL). Your total vanity top and sink weight is about 70 pounds but the GDL is about 11 pounds per square foot. This is not much. You may have heard one that the pressure of a woman’s high heel shoe is similar to the weight of an elephant. That is because the area of the tip of the heel is so small. To give you another example, if you personally weight 150 pounds and sit on the vanity, the GDL is about 10 times as much as the vanity top.

I would reinforce the back as you mentioned for extra support, and then put a couple small 1″ ‘L’ clips on the inside front of the cabinet. You can even glue these in place because you just need to diaphragm the vanity box. When you install the vanity top, use white or clear silicone on the top of the vanity walls to adhere it to the vanity cabinets. The instructions on this page should help: http://homegranite.com/installation.htm. The vanity top also will diaphragm the vanity box. Also caulk the back splash to the wall and to the top of the vanity top. This will keep the whole unit from wobbling.

Granite Overhang That Is Too Heavy & Not Level

Posted in Answers to Granite Questions..., Installation Issues, Other Topics on March 9th, 2007

We just had our kitchen redone. We have a 46″ high bump up (bar like) area with an overhang that curves from 6″ to 12″ at its widest and it runs about a 10′ 7″ long between the kitchen/dining area. Five metal brackets support the granite. The fabricator and designer assured us that corbels were NOT needed. After the epoxy dried and the support sticks were removed, the counter is now 1/4″ out of level dipping down toward where we will have our stools. This is unacceptable to us. The contractor is now proposing corbels and possibly shimming the granite. I am upset that it was obviously done incorrectly the first time. Please share your opinion on how this should be handled in order to make it level and insure proper support. - Chuck

Hello Chuck. Unfortunately, corbels are the only solution without remove the granite. If you go to do a search of my blog for ‘overhang’ you will see a lot of my comments on this issue. (Check this one specifically, “Supporting A Large Overhang When Using Granite Tile“.)

If you can pop the granite without breaking it, you can upgrade the steel to the dimensions I stated in the comment I referenced. However, there are still some factors that could cause it to slump such as poor plywood anchoring and weak cabinet structure. The industry standard is to use corbels for 12″ overhangs, but steel straps can suffice, usually.

So, the plan is correct at this point, using corbels but shim are not required. The countertop needs to be raised back up to 1/8″ above level and supported with 2×4 wood. Then, install the corbles. The top will naturally sag to level. I hope you don’t break the granite because this process requires experience.